[BCNnet] fencing FP areas; questions and important article
judymellin
judymellin@netzero.net
Sat, 8 Nov 2003 17:26:14 -0800
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Alan- I'm sure there are others who would be very concerned about this =
issue because it far supercedes birds and birding. This is the =
beginning of the erosion of land held for public use.
It seems to me that this is something that the Friends of the Forest =
Preserve would honcho with birders as a backup group. Why go to all the =
trouble of preserving forest preserve land if it is going to be set =
aside for private interests?
Because it has happened once does not mean it has to happen again- but =
it can- and likely will- if folks do not get concerned. This is an =
issue for everyone who pays taxes and who will now find him/herself =
banned from public land.
Judy Mellin
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Alan Anderson=20
To: BCNnet Listserv=20
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 1:30 PM
Subject: [BCNnet] fencing FP areas; questions and important article
The accompanying article (see below) was in the latest issue of the =
Des Plaines Times, and possibly other local Pioneer Press papers. It =
is important to read it to understand the current situation with regard =
to area forest preserves and dog areas. Please understand that I am =
not opposed to dog areas in general. What I don't fully understand, =
and really do worry about, it that this both sets a dangerous precedent =
for other groups (it might be the dog groups now, but it could be other =
groups later also) to ask for set aside forest preserve areas for the =
use of a particular group, and keeps those outside the paying group from =
using that area of the forest preserve. =20
three areas of questions to think about (my concerns - but if others =
don't have the same concerns, maybe I am missing something and didn't =
worry):
1) how far might this go? how many other groups will ask for forest =
preserve areas to be set aside (fenced in and only 'those paying' can =
get in) and when/where would it end? I certainly believe that this =
will not end with just the Beck Lake and Thatcher area dog groups. =
The Beck Lake group is at its permit level (3OO or 500?) already so you =
know that there are many dog owners who might want a separate set-aside =
area in the forest preserves, and maybe additional groups (not dog =
owners but other groups) that might want a similar area in the future. =
And where? the Beck Lake dog area includes a pond, a creek and =
adjacent wetlands - will wetlands always be the desired spot? =20
2) if they want to "co-exist" with others, then why are all others =
kept out of this area - a public forest preserve?
3) I doubt it would be good to discuss all of the issues/concerns =
involved with them at their Nov. 18th meeting, but would it be ok to =
suggest that a few Cook County Commissioners and members of Thatcher Dog =
get together with reps from BCN to discuss the issues/concerns in the =
future? I certainly don't want to get into a shouting match or =
arguments with them (as those who know me certainly understand), but I =
do wish they (especially the commissioners) would see some overall =
concerns that I and others might have about 'fencing' in areas of our =
forest preserves, and keeping others out.=20
Right now I have concerns about the issues and really would want to =
talk to others who are sincere and willing to work together on this =
overall situation. If others don't feel it could get out of control, =
or won't lead to "I want mine too", please say so. I'm unsure just =
how important others feel these issues are. If no one else but Judy =
and I are concerned, then maybe I really am worrying too much about it. =
If the commissioners are for these proposals have they looked at some =
of these concerns or questions and determined that they won't be a =
problem? =20
I guess I need to call Mike Quigley's office too, to get his opinion. =
=20
anyhow, the article in question is below. It is filled with many =
important facts and history.
Alan Anderson, casresearch@comcast.net , Des Plaines
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Alan Anderson=20
To: alan52dp@comcast.net=20
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 2:58 PM
Subject: article: Going to the Dogs
GOING TO THE DOGS
Owners Seek canine-friendly places in forest preserves
by Cathryn Gran and Irv Leavitt
Staff Writers
Pioneer Press
(this article appeared in The Des Plaines Times, Thursday, 11-6-03, =
pp73-75, and possibly other PP papers)
Residents who founded the Beck Lake Dog Friendly Area between Glenview =
and Des Plaines have three pieces of advice for anyone who wants =
something from the Cook County Forest Preserve District:
- be prepared
- prove you have support
- don't give up
Their sage advice is being put to use by Thatcher DOG, a group of area =
dog lovers.
Thatcher DOG is lobbying to create a dog-friendly area somewhere along =
Thatcher Avenue between Madison Street and Irving Park Road.
Beck Lake organizer Gia Heybrock is coaching Thatcher DOG on its =
campaign.
Before Heybrock, Jan Stoltz and a few other dog owners took on the =
forest preserve district three years ago, they first found out how other =
groups had convinced area municipalities to allow dog parks.
Their initial stop was a pilgrimage to the woman who won Chicago's =
support for the city's first public dog area, Wiggley Field, in 1992.
"Stacy Hawk showed us how to do it step by step, what to do to get the =
dog park in," Heybrock said. "With Stacy there to help us, we didn't do =
anything that didn't make sense.
"Basically, you have to get community support," added Heybrock, a Des =
Plaines woman whose regular job is tending bar at Dino's Pizzeria on =
Chicago's Northwest Side. "We had over 3,000 signatures on a petition."
The biggest factor in the Beck Lake effort's success was =
'persistance", said County Commissioner Mike Quigley, D-10th, who put =
Heybrock and her friends on the County Board's agenda.
"They were persistent with the board, persistent with the =
superintendent, persistent with the administration of the forest prserve =
district," Quigley added.
"There are some really good people in the forest preserve who really =
care about this, but they are stymied by ineffective management."
All Heybrock's group wanted was a fence around a few acres of land at =
the sie of a pond with access to a parking lot so their dogs could run =
off-leash.
Similar considerations had been granted by municipalities and other =
Illinois counties for a decade, so there was no necessity to reinvent =
the wheel.
Heybrock and her group were up to the task, Quigley said. They were =
never at a loss for complete paperwork or allies to back them up in =
front of the Conty Board or its committees.
"They had their ducks in order, people ready to testify, tons of =
documentation, people to do lobbying." Quigley said. Their effort was "a =
good example in any level of government".
Members of the Thatcher Woods Dog Owners Group are making good use of =
suggestiosn offered by members of teh Beck Lake group. The Thatcher =
group includes residents of Elmwood Park, Melrose Park, Oak Park, River =
Forest, Riverside, Brookfield and Chicago.
"We have quite a few people who are interested in something other than =
some of the smaller dog parks, which are cement," noted Beth Kaplan, one =
of the Thatcher DOG co-chairs. Also helping organize the operation are =
Erika Arett, Linda Funk, and Jim DeLauriea.
Kaplan credits Arnett as being the driving force behind the dog park.
Following in the paw prints of Beck Lake, Thatcher members started a =
petition drive.
"We have well over 600 signatures, both online and hard copy," Kaplan =
said, noting group members take every opportunity to gather more names =
at the various events in which they participate.
They also plan on attending today's Cook County Board meeting, and =
possibly address the board.
"We've attended one (meeting) so far just to see what was involved," =
Kaplan said. "We wanted to present ourselves to commissioners. So, we =
introduced ourselves and gave an update as to who we are and what we are =
trying to accomplish.
"We already have met individually with four commissioners and they =
seemed to be all for it".
The group also is trying to decide on a location for the dog park.
"There are two different areas we are focused on," Kaplan said. "We =
want to work closely with forest preserve board to see which site would =
work better."
The two locations are the preserves on the north side of Chicago =
Avenue between Thatcher and First Avenues and the area ust south of =
Fullerton Avenue and west of Thatcher.
"We do not want to knock heads with environments or any others," she =
explained. "We want to co-exist. Once again, we really ned to work with =
the forest preserve to see what's feasible."
The group will continue withits letter-writing campaining to all =
county commissioners and try to add more signatures to its petitions, =
Kaplan said.
The group also will meet at 7:30pm Nov. 18 in the Oak Park Public =
Library, 834 W. Lake St.
The meeting will be an important forum for dog lovers to voice their =
ideas for a dog-friendly area, according to informatoin provided by the =
Thatcher Woods Dog Owners Group.
The meeting will include a review of proposed sites and of results =
from the Nov. 5 County Board meeting. The group will update the status =
of current activities such as petition drive, letter writing campaign =
and public outreach efforts.
Additional information about Thatcher DOG and its activities is =
available by visiting www.ThatcherDog.com.
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<DIV>Alan- I'm sure there are others who would be very concerned about =
this=20
issue because it far supercedes birds and birding. This is the =
beginning=20
of the erosion of land held for public use.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It seems to me that this is something that the Friends of the =
Forest=20
Preserve would honcho with birders as a backup group. Why go to =
all the=20
trouble of preserving forest preserve land if it is going to be set =
aside for=20
private interests?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Because it has happened once does not mean it has to happen again- =
but it=20
can- and likely will- if folks do not get concerned. This is an =
issue for=20
everyone who pays taxes and who will now find him/herself banned from =
public=20
land.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Judy Mellin</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcasresearch@comcast.net =
href=3D"mailto:casresearch@comcast.net">Alan=20
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DBCNnet@ece.iit.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:BCNnet@ece.iit.edu">BCNnet Listserv</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 08, =
2003 1:30=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [BCNnet] fencing FP =
areas;=20
questions and important article</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The accompanying article (see below) =
was in the=20
latest issue of the Des Plaines Times, and possibly other local =
Pioneer Press=20
papers. It is important to read it to understand the =
current=20
situation with regard to area forest preserves and dog =
areas. =20
Please understand that I am not opposed to dog areas in =
general. =20
What I don't fully understand, and really do worry about, it that this =
both=20
sets a dangerous precedent for other groups (it might be the dog =
groups now,=20
but it could be other groups later also) to ask for set aside forest =
preserve=20
areas for the use of a particular group, and keeps those outside the =
paying=20
group from using that area of the forest preserve. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>three areas of questions to think =
about (my=20
concerns - but if others don't have the same concerns, maybe I am =
missing=20
something and didn't worry):</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) how far might this go? =
how many=20
other groups will ask for forest preserve areas to be set aside =
(fenced in and=20
only 'those paying' can get in) and when/where would it =
end? I=20
certainly believe that this will not end with just the Beck Lake and =
Thatcher=20
area dog groups. The Beck Lake group is at its =
permit=20
level (3OO or 500?) already so you know that there are many dog=20
owners who might want a separate set-aside area in the forest =
preserves,=20
and maybe additional groups (not dog owners but other groups) that =
might want=20
a similar area in the future. And where? =
the=20
Beck Lake dog area includes a pond, a creek and adjacent =
wetlands - will=20
wetlands always be the desired spot? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) if they want to "co-exist" =
with others,=20
then why are all others kept out of this area - a public forest=20
preserve?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) I doubt it would be good to =
discuss all=20
of the issues/concerns involved with them at their Nov. 18th meeting, =
but=20
would it be ok to suggest that a few Cook County Commissioners and =
members of=20
Thatcher Dog get together with reps from BCN to discuss the =
issues/concerns in=20
the future? I certainly don't want to get into a =
shouting=20
match or arguments with them (as those who know me certainly =
understand), but=20
I do wish they (especially the commissioners) would see some overall =
concerns=20
that I and others might have about 'fencing' in areas of our forest =
preserves,=20
and keeping others out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Right now I have concerns about the =
issues and=20
really would want to talk to others who are sincere and willing to =
work=20
together on this overall situation. If others don't feel =
it could=20
get out of control, or won't lead to "I want mine too", please say=20
so. I'm unsure just how important others feel these =
issues=20
are. If no one else but Judy and I are concerned, then =
maybe I=20
really am worrying too much about it. If the commissioners =
are for=20
these proposals have they looked at some of these concerns or =
questions and=20
determined that they won't be a problem? =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess I need to call Mike Quigley's =
office too,=20
to get his opinion. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>anyhow, the article in question is=20
below. It is filled with many important facts and=20
history.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alan Anderson, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:casresearch@comcast.net">casresearch@comcast.net</A> , =
Des=20
Plaines</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcasresearch@comcast.net =
href=3D"mailto:casresearch@comcast.net">Alan=20
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dalan52dp@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:alan52dp@comcast.net">alan52dp@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 08, 2003 2:58 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> article: Going to the Dogs</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>
<P>GOING TO THE DOGS</P>
<P>Owners Seek canine-friendly places in forest preserves</P>
<P>by Cathryn Gran and Irv Leavitt</P>
<P>Staff Writers</P>
<P>Pioneer Press</P>
<P>(this article appeared in The Des Plaines Times, Thursday, 11-6-03, =
pp73-75, and possibly other PP papers)</P>
<P>Residents who founded the Beck Lake Dog Friendly Area between =
Glenview and=20
Des Plaines have three pieces of advice for anyone who wants something =
from=20
the Cook County Forest Preserve District:</P>
<P>- be prepared</P>
<P>- prove you have support</P>
<P>- don't give up</P>
<P>Their sage advice is being put to use by Thatcher DOG, a group of =
area dog=20
lovers.</P>
<P>Thatcher DOG is lobbying to create a dog-friendly area somewhere =
along=20
Thatcher Avenue between Madison Street and Irving Park Road.</P>
<P>Beck Lake organizer Gia Heybrock is coaching Thatcher DOG on its=20
campaign.</P>
<P>Before Heybrock, Jan Stoltz and a few other dog owners took on the =
forest=20
preserve district three years ago, they first found out how other =
groups had=20
convinced area municipalities to allow dog parks.</P>
<P>Their initial stop was a pilgrimage to the woman who won Chicago's =
support=20
for the city's first public dog area, Wiggley Field, in 1992.</P>
<P>"Stacy Hawk showed us how to do it step by step, what to do to get =
the dog=20
park in," Heybrock said. "With Stacy there to help us, we didn't do =
anything=20
that didn't make sense.</P>
<P>"Basically, you have to get community support," added Heybrock, a =
Des=20
Plaines woman whose regular job is tending bar at Dino's Pizzeria on =
Chicago's=20
Northwest Side. "We had over 3,000 signatures on a petition."</P>
<P>The biggest factor in the Beck Lake effort's success was =
'persistance",=20
said County Commissioner Mike Quigley, D-10th, who put Heybrock and =
her=20
friends on the County Board's agenda.</P>
<P>"They were persistent with the board, persistent with the =
superintendent,=20
persistent with the administration of the forest prserve district," =
Quigley=20
added.</P>
<P>"There are some really good people in the forest preserve who =
really care=20
about this, but they are stymied by ineffective management."</P>
<P>All Heybrock's group wanted was a fence around a few acres of land =
at the=20
sie of a pond with access to a parking lot so their dogs could run=20
off-leash.</P>
<P>Similar considerations had been granted by municipalities and other =
Illinois counties for a decade, so there was no necessity to reinvent =
the=20
wheel.</P>
<P>Heybrock and her group were up to the task, Quigley said. They were =
never=20
at a loss for complete paperwork or allies to back them up in front of =
the=20
Conty Board or its committees.</P>
<P>"They had their ducks in order, people ready to testify, tons of=20
documentation, people to do lobbying." Quigley said. Their effort was =
"a good=20
example in any level of government".</P>
<P>Members of the Thatcher Woods Dog Owners Group are making good use =
of=20
suggestiosn offered by members of teh Beck Lake group. The Thatcher =
group=20
includes residents of Elmwood Park, Melrose Park, Oak Park, River =
Forest,=20
Riverside, Brookfield and Chicago.</P>
<P>"We have quite a few people who are interested in something other =
than some=20
of the smaller dog parks, which are cement," noted Beth Kaplan, one of =
the=20
Thatcher DOG co-chairs. Also helping organize the operation are Erika =
Arett,=20
Linda Funk, and Jim DeLauriea.</P>
<P>Kaplan credits Arnett as being the driving force behind the dog =
park.</P>
<P>Following in the paw prints of Beck Lake, Thatcher members started =
a=20
petition drive.</P>
<P>"We have well over 600 signatures, both online and hard copy," =
Kaplan said,=20
noting group members take every opportunity to gather more names at =
the=20
various events in which they participate.</P>
<P>They also plan on attending today's Cook County Board meeting, and =
possibly=20
address the board.</P>
<P>"We've attended one (meeting) so far just to see what was =
involved," Kaplan=20
said. "We wanted to present ourselves to commissioners. So, we =
introduced=20
ourselves and gave an update as to who we are and what we are trying =
to=20
accomplish.</P>
<P>"We already have met individually with four commissioners and they =
seemed=20
to be all for it".</P>
<P>The group also is trying to decide on a location for the dog =
park.</P>
<P>"There are two different areas we are focused on," Kaplan said. "We =
want to=20
work closely with forest preserve board to see which site would work=20
better."</P>
<P>The two locations are the preserves on the north side of Chicago =
Avenue=20
between Thatcher and First Avenues and the area ust south of Fullerton =
Avenue=20
and west of Thatcher.</P>
<P>"We do not want to knock heads with environments or any others," =
she=20
explained. "We want to co-exist. Once again, we really ned to work =
with the=20
forest preserve to see what's feasible."</P>
<P>The group will continue withits letter-writing campaining to all =
county=20
commissioners and try to add more signatures to its petitions, Kaplan=20
said.</P>
<P>The group also will meet at 7:30pm Nov. 18 in the Oak Park Public =
Library,=20
834 W. Lake St.</P>
<P>The meeting will be an important forum for dog lovers to voice =
their ideas=20
for a dog-friendly area, according to informatoin provided by the =
Thatcher=20
Woods Dog Owners Group.</P>
<P>The meeting will include a review of proposed sites and of results =
from the=20
Nov. 5 County Board meeting. The group will update the status of =
current=20
activities such as petition drive, letter writing campaign and public =
outreach=20
efforts.</P>
<P>Additional information about Thatcher DOG and its activities is =
available=20
by visiting=20
www.ThatcherDog.com.</P></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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