[BCNnet] birding at HE DTA - friendly, co-exist; at Beck Lake? - Pay up!
judymellin
judymellin@netzero.net
Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:03:30 -0800
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I agree with Alan on this issue. He and I have birded the dog training =
area in Hoffman Estates with no problems or conflict with the "dog =
folks." It is open to all who choose to come with the caveat that dogs =
are supreme here.
I think that the establishment of a dog training area with a fee would =
not serve any purpose. Dogs- even those that run loose- would not be =
banned from other areas or preserves so why would this be done? There =
are certainly not enough FPD police to monitor these activities and who =
would know if the owners were carrying licenses? =20
I was charged by two rottweilers at the Poplar Creek Forest Preserve a =
couple of years ago while their owner watched. Would a license have =
prevented this? No, because the owner was violating the leash law so he =
would never have observed a license law. =20
If we begin carving up our already degraded preserves for special =
interest groups, where will it end? Who will be responsible for being =
sure that these areas are maintained for dogs? Who will clean up after =
them? =20
The FPD was established to preserve public land for public use. =
Establishing licensed areas would, in my opinion, be the first step in =
eroding that mandate.
Judy Mellin
Bird Monitor
Poplar Creek Prairie Stewards
Hoffman Estates (Cook County)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Alan Anderson=20
To: BCNnet Listserv=20
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:27 PM
Subject: [BCNnet] birding at HE DTA - friendly, co-exist; at Beck =
Lake? - Pay up!
Funny thing about the timing of this request for information. I had =
just birded at Beck Lake on October 27th, and reported my bird sightings =
to IBET.=20
What I didn't report was that there was a fence around areas that I =
birded in the past. This includes the area where the current Dog Area is =
at Beck Lake FP, and the proposed enlarged area.
Some of the habitat inside the fenced in area includes grassland, =
woods, a pond and other wetlands, including a cattail marsh. Last fall I =
had a few snipe in those marshes, as well as sparrows, wrens and other =
birds etc. I would've liked to go check those areas out again this fall, =
but couldn't of course since it was fenced in.
I contacted the Cook County Forest Preserve District afterwards to =
find out if I could still enter this area just to go birding there. =
Yesterday I found out that I couldn't - I would have to pay the $50 fee =
to join the dog group to be able to enter. (I don't know if you HAVE to =
own a dog to join the group, but since I do own a dog, that point is =
moot*).
Of course this area is not just now closed to birders, but to those =
who might want to observe dragonflies, butterflies, herps or plants =
inside the fenced area also.
Ever since the Breeding Bird Atlas began in 1985, one of my favorite =
birding areas in the summer has been the Dog Training Area in Hoffman =
Estates. This area is a large forest preserve with a variety of =
habitats, including woods, grassland, large cattail marsh, shrubland and =
other wetlands. This is of course an area where many dog-owners go to =
walk and train their dogs. I have been there many times when people are =
there with there dogs, and birders (I've led many trips there too) and =
dog-owners are always friendly and cordial to each other, and we each =
'do our own thing'. There is no fee (or fenced in area) here.
There are other forest preserves with areas for dog training, and =
other forest preserves (such as at Busse Woods, Deer Grove and north of =
Bartel Grasslands) have areas for model airplane flying. But the =
difference in these areas, as compared to the new fenced in area at Beck =
Lake, is that all the others are not fenced in, and open to all to use =
(just stay away from the area closest to where the planes are flying) or =
walk in and around. At Beck, now an area is totally closed to all but =
those who pay the $50 fee.
Something is wrong here. I haven't heard of any legal challenges yet, =
so I don't know if this is legal or not, but it certainly doesn't seem =
right to have a 'public' forest preserve that is open to only those who =
pay a yearly fee.
But it certainly opens 'Pandora's door' to other groups who want to =
use part of a forest preserve for their own use. Whether this is fought =
on legal grounds (what do the Sierra Club lawyers say?), in the media, =
or elsewhere, I think we should watch out for situations like this.
Do we have to have all the area birding groups and conservation =
organizations each come up with a proposal to have an area set aside for =
our own personal use for a fee to get the FPD commissioners to see what =
could happen with many other groups 'demanding ours'? I really don't =
think that would work (especially if the FPD sees only dollar signs - =
just kidding!) of course, but how do we get the FPD to see the =
implications - or act?
I would hope that all forest preserve land would remain open to all =
who pay taxes and not certain areas set aside for 'special groups' - not =
even birders. Yes, I'm being a bit selfish here, but so would most of =
us.
I would prefer not seeing the forest preserve areas fenced in, but at =
the very least, the general public should not be kept out of those areas =
unless they have to pay a fee.
That's just my opinion.=20
Alan Anderson
casresearch@comcast.net
Des Plaines
* disclaimer: I do own a dog, and I do take her for walks in area =
forest preserves (Axehead Lake, Northwestern Woods etc.) at times, but =
always on a leash, as that is what the signs say (although making sure =
she doesn't run too far away or have confrontations with other dogs =
plays a role there too).
----- Original Message -----=20
From: <Rbdoeker@aol.com <mailto:Rbdoeker@aol.com>>=20
To: <BCNnet@ece.iit.edu <mailto:BCNnet@ece.iit.edu>>=20
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:20 PM=20
Subject: [BCNnet] FYI: dog area at Beck Lake=20
>=20
>=20
> FYI: The dog area at Beck Lake (in the Cook Co FP) will be enlarged =
to the area originally approved by the Cook County Commissioners in 2002 =
(which is 26 acres in total and includes a pond).
>=20
> If anyone has experience with this area vis a vis birds, please send =
me the info. It may help influence the location of dog parks in other =
forest preserve areas.
>=20
> Randi Doeker
> rbdoeker@aol.com <mailto:rbdoeker@aol.com>
> Chicago
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<DIV>I agree with Alan on this issue. He and I have birded the dog =
training area in Hoffman Estates with no problems or conflict with the =
"dog=20
folks." It is open to all who choose to come with the caveat that =
dogs are=20
supreme here.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think that the establishment of a dog training area with a fee =
would not=20
serve any purpose. Dogs- even those that run loose- would not be =
banned=20
from other areas or preserves so why would this be done? There are =
certainly not enough FPD police to monitor these activities and who =
would know=20
if the owners were carrying licenses? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was charged by two rottweilers at the Poplar Creek Forest =
Preserve a=20
couple of years ago while their owner watched. Would a license =
have=20
prevented this? No, because the owner was violating the leash law =
so he=20
would never have observed a license law. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If we begin carving up our already degraded preserves for special =
interest=20
groups, where will it end? Who will be responsible for being sure =
that=20
these areas are maintained for dogs? Who will clean up after =
them? =20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The FPD was established to preserve public land for public =
use. =20
Establishing licensed areas would, in my opinion, be the first step in =
eroding=20
that mandate.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Judy Mellin</DIV>
<DIV>Bird Monitor</DIV>
<DIV>Poplar Creek Prairie Stewards</DIV>
<DIV>Hoffman Estates (Cook County)</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcasresearch@comcast.net =
href=3D"mailto:casresearch@comcast.net">Alan=20
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DBCNnet@ece.iit.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:BCNnet@ece.iit.edu">BCNnet Listserv</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 06, =
2003 8:27=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [BCNnet] birding at HE =
DTA -=20
friendly, co-exist; at Beck Lake? - Pay up!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>Funny thing about the timing of this request for information. I had =
just=20
birded at Beck Lake on October 27th, and reported my bird sightings to =
IBET.=20
</P>
<P>What I didn't report was that there was a fence around areas that I =
birded=20
in the past. This includes the area where the current Dog Area is at =
Beck Lake=20
FP, and the proposed enlarged area.</P>
<P>Some of the habitat inside the fenced in area includes grassland, =
woods, a=20
pond and other wetlands, including a cattail marsh. Last fall I had a =
few=20
snipe in those marshes, as well as sparrows, wrens and other birds =
etc. I=20
would've liked to go check those areas out again this fall, but =
couldn't of=20
course since it was fenced in.</P>
<P>I contacted the Cook County Forest Preserve District afterwards to =
find out=20
if I could still enter this area just to go birding there. Yesterday I =
found=20
out that I couldn't - I would have to pay the $50 fee to join the dog =
group to=20
be able to enter. (I don't know if you HAVE to own a dog to join the =
group,=20
but since I do own a dog, that point is moot*).</P>
<P>Of course this area is not just now closed to birders, but to those =
who=20
might want to observe dragonflies, butterflies, herps or plants inside =
the=20
fenced area also.</P>
<P>Ever since the Breeding Bird Atlas began in 1985, one of my =
favorite=20
birding areas in the summer has been the Dog Training Area in Hoffman =
Estates.=20
This area is a large forest preserve with a variety of habitats, =
including=20
woods, grassland, large cattail marsh, shrubland and other wetlands. =
This is=20
of course an area where many dog-owners go to walk and train their =
dogs. I=20
have been there many times when people are there with there dogs, and =
birders=20
(I've led many trips there too) and dog-owners are always friendly and =
cordial=20
to each other, and we each 'do our own thing'. There is no fee (or =
fenced in=20
area) here.</P>
<P>There are other forest preserves with areas for dog training, and =
other=20
forest preserves (such as at Busse Woods, Deer Grove and north of =
Bartel=20
Grasslands) have areas for model airplane flying. But the difference =
in these=20
areas, as compared to the new fenced in area at Beck Lake, is that all =
the=20
others are not fenced in, and open to all to use (just stay away from =
the area=20
closest to where the planes are flying) or walk in and around. At =
Beck, now an=20
area is totally closed to all but those who pay the $50 fee.</P>
<P>Something is wrong here. I haven't heard of any legal challenges =
yet, so I=20
don't know if this is legal or not, but it certainly doesn't seem =
right to=20
have a 'public' forest preserve that is open to only those who pay a =
yearly=20
fee.</P>
<P>But it certainly opens 'Pandora's door' to other groups who want to =
use=20
part of a forest preserve for their own use. Whether this is fought on =
legal=20
grounds (what do the Sierra Club lawyers say?), in the media, or =
elsewhere, I=20
think we should watch out for situations like this.</P>
<P>Do we have to have all the area birding groups and conservation=20
organizations each come up with a proposal to have an area set aside =
for our=20
own personal use for a fee to get the FPD commissioners to see what =
could=20
happen with many other groups 'demanding ours'? I really don't think =
that=20
would work (especially if the FPD sees only dollar signs - just =
kidding!) of=20
course, but how do we get the FPD to see the implications - or =
act?</P>
<P>I would hope that all forest preserve land would remain open to all =
who pay=20
taxes and not certain areas set aside for 'special groups' - not even =
birders.=20
Yes, I'm being a bit selfish here, but so would most of us.</P>
<P>I would prefer not seeing the forest preserve areas fenced in, but =
at the=20
very least, the general public should not be kept out of those areas =
unless=20
they have to pay a fee.</P>
<P>That's just my opinion. </P>
<P>Alan Anderson</P>
<P>casresearch@comcast.net</P>
<P>Des Plaines</P>
<P>* disclaimer: I do own a dog, and I do take her for walks in area =
forest=20
preserves (Axehead Lake, Northwestern Woods etc.) at times, but always =
on a=20
leash, as that is what the signs say (although making sure she doesn't =
run too=20
far away or have confrontations with other dogs plays a role there =
too).</P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P>----- Original Message ----- </P>
<P>From: <<U><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Rbdoeker@aol.com=20
<mailto:Rbdoeker@aol.com></U></FONT>> </P>
<P>To: <<U><FONT color=3D#0000ff>BCNnet@ece.iit.edu=20
<mailto:BCNnet@ece.iit.edu></U></FONT>> </P>
<P>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:20 PM </P>
<P>Subject: [BCNnet] FYI: dog area at Beck Lake </P>
<P><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> FYI: The dog area at Beck Lake (in the =
Cook Co=20
FP) will be enlarged to the area originally approved by the Cook =
County=20
Commissioners in 2002 (which is 26 acres in total and includes a=20
pond).<BR>> <BR>> If anyone has experience with this area vis a =
vis=20
birds, please send me the info. It may help influence the location of =
dog=20
parks in other forest preserve areas.<BR>> <BR>> Randi =
Doeker<BR>>=20
<U><FONT color=3D#0000ff>rbdoeker@aol.com=20
<mailto:rbdoeker@aol.com></U></FONT><BR>>=20
Chicago<BR></P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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