[BCNnet] dog areas
Rbdoeker@aol.com
Rbdoeker@aol.com
Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:51:00 EST
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FYI: I believe the county commissioners view the dog areas as open to the
public --just the way the golf courses are. Anyone can sign up to use them and
sometimes there is a fee to pay for the "special" benefits provided (in this
case a fence and whatever else is there). The county limited the number of
permits to 500 and is considering adding another 200.)
This differs from the use of part of the FP by the Boy Scouts. The
commissioners stopped that since not everyone can join the scouts. (There was not
total agreement that but enough to make the difference.)
Randi Doeker
Chicago
In a message dated 11/6/2003 10:26:32 PM Central Standard Time,
casresearch@comcast.net writes:
Funny thing about the timing of this request for information. I had just
birded at Beck Lake on October 27th, and reported my bird sightings to IBET.
What I didn't report was that there was a fence around areas that I birded in
the past. This includes the area where the current Dog Area is at Beck Lake
FP, and the proposed enlarged area.
Some of the habitat inside the fenced in area includes grassland, woods, a
pond and other wetlands, including a cattail marsh. Last fall I had a few snipe
in those marshes, as well as sparrows, wrens and other birds etc. I would've
liked to go check those areas out again this fall, but couldn't of course since
it was fenced in.
I contacted the Cook County Forest Preserve District afterwards to find out
if I could still enter this area just to go birding there. Yesterday I found
out that I couldn't - I would have to pay the $50 fee to join the dog group to
be able to enter. (I don't know if you HAVE to own a dog to join the group, but
since I do own a dog, that point is moot*).
Of course this area is not just now closed to birders, but to those who might
want to observe dragonflies, butterflies, herps or plants inside the fenced
area also.
Ever since the Breeding Bird Atlas began in 1985, one of my favorite birding
areas in the summer has been the Dog Training Area in Hoffman Estates. This
area is a large forest preserve with a variety of habitats, including woods,
grassland, large cattail marsh, shrubland and other wetlands. This is of course
an area where many dog-owners go to walk and train their dogs. I have been
there many times when people are there with there dogs, and birders (I've led many
trips there too) and dog-owners are always friendly and cordial to each
other, and we each 'do our own thing'. There is no fee (or fenced in area) here.
There are other forest preserves with areas for dog training, and other
forest preserves (such as at Busse Woods, Deer Grove and north of Bartel
Grasslands) have areas for model airplane flying. But the difference in these areas, as
compared to the new fenced in area at Beck Lake, is that all the others are
not fenced in, and open to all to use (just stay away from the area closest to
where the planes are flying) or walk in and around. At Beck, now an area is
totally closed to all but those who pay the $50 fee.
Something is wrong here. I haven't heard of any legal challenges yet, so I
don't know if this is legal or not, but it certainly doesn't seem right to have
a 'public' forest preserve that is open to only those who pay a yearly fee.
But it certainly opens 'Pandora's door' to other groups who want to use part
of a forest preserve for their own use. Whether this is fought on legal
grounds (what do the Sierra Club lawyers say?), in the media, or elsewhere, I think
we should watch out for situations like this.
Do we have to have all the area birding groups and conservation organizations
each come up with a proposal to have an area set aside for our own personal
use for a fee to get the FPD commissioners to see what could happen with many
other groups 'demanding ours'? I really don't think that would work (especially
if the FPD sees only dollar signs - just kidding!) of course, but how do we
get the FPD to see the implications - or act?
I would hope that all forest preserve land would remain open to all who pay
taxes and not certain areas set aside for 'special groups' - not even birders.
Yes, I'm being a bit selfish here, but so would most of us.
I would prefer not seeing the forest preserve areas fenced in, but at the
very least, the general public should not be kept out of those areas unless they
have to pay a fee.
That's just my opinion.
Alan Anderson
casresearch@comcast.net
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<DIV>
<DIV>FYI: I believe the county commissioners view the dog areas as ope=
n to the public --just the way the golf courses are. Anyone can sign u=
p to use them and sometimes there is a fee to pay for the "special" benefits=
provided (in this case a fence and whatever else is there). The county=
limited the number of permits to 500 and is considering adding another 200.=
)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This differs from the use of part of the FP by the Boy Scouts. Th=
e commissioners stopped that since not everyone can join the scouts. (=
There was not total agreement that but enough to make the difference.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Randi Doeker</DIV>
<DIV>Chicago</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/6/2003 10:26:32 PM Central Standard Time, casrese=
arch@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>Funny thing about the timing of this request for information. I had just=20=
birded at Beck Lake on October 27th, and reported my bird sightings to IBET.=
</P>
<P>What I didn't report was that there was a fence around areas that I birde=
d in the past. This includes the area where the current Dog Area is at Beck=20=
Lake FP, and the proposed enlarged area.</P>
<P>Some of the habitat inside the fenced in area includes grassland, woods,=20=
a pond and other wetlands, including a cattail marsh. Last fall I had a few=20=
snipe in those marshes, as well as sparrows, wrens and other birds etc. I wo=
uld've liked to go check those areas out again this fall, but couldn't of co=
urse since it was fenced in.</P>
<P>I contacted the Cook County Forest Preserve District afterwards to find o=
ut if I could still enter this area just to go birding there. Yesterday I fo=
und out that I couldn't - I would have to pay the $50 fee to join the dog gr=
oup to be able to enter. (I don't know if you HAVE to own a dog to join the=20=
group, but since I do own a dog, that point is moot*).</P>
<P>Of course this area is not just now closed to birders, but to those who m=
ight want to observe dragonflies, butterflies, herps or plants inside the fe=
nced area also.</P>
<P>Ever since the Breeding Bird Atlas began in 1985, one of my favorite bird=
ing areas in the summer has been the Dog Training Area in Hoffman Estates. T=
his area is a large forest preserve with a variety of habitats, including wo=
ods, grassland, large cattail marsh, shrubland and other wetlands. This is o=
f course an area where many dog-owners go to walk and train their dogs. I ha=
ve been there many times when people are there with there dogs, and birders=20=
(I've led many trips there too) and dog-owners are always friendly and cordi=
al to each other, and we each 'do our own thing'. There is no fee (or fenced=
in area) here.</P>
<P>There are other forest preserves with areas for dog training, and other f=
orest preserves (such as at Busse Woods, Deer Grove and north of Bartel Gras=
slands) have areas for model airplane flying. But the difference in these ar=
eas, as compared to the new fenced in area at Beck Lake, is that all the oth=
ers are not fenced in, and open to all to use (just stay away from the area=20=
closest to where the planes are flying) or walk in and around. At Beck, now=20=
an area is totally closed to all but those who pay the $50 fee.</P>
<P>Something is wrong here. I haven't heard of any legal challenges yet, so=20=
I don't know if this is legal or not, but it certainly doesn't seem right to=
have a 'public' forest preserve that is open to only those who pay a yearly=
fee.</P>
<P>But it certainly opens 'Pandora's door' to other groups who want to use p=
art of a forest preserve for their own use. Whether this is fought on legal=20=
grounds (what do the Sierra Club lawyers say?), in the media, or elsewhere,=20=
I think we should watch out for situations like this.</P>
<P>Do we have to have all the area birding groups and conservation organizat=
ions each come up with a proposal to have an area set aside for our own pers=
onal use for a fee to get the FPD commissioners to see what could happen wit=
h many other groups 'demanding ours'? I really don't think that would work (=
especially if the FPD sees only dollar signs - just kidding!) of course, but=
how do we get the FPD to see the implications - or act?</P>
<P>I would hope that all forest preserve land would remain open to all who p=
ay taxes and not certain areas set aside for 'special groups' - not even bir=
ders. Yes, I'm being a bit selfish here, but so would most of us.</P>
<P>I would prefer not seeing the forest preserve areas fenced in, but at the=
very least, the general public should not be kept out of those areas unless=
they have to pay a fee.</P>
<P>That's just my opinion. </P>
<P>Alan Anderson</P>
<P>casresearch@comcast.net</P></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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