[BCNnet] Finding common ground
Birdchris@aol.com
Birdchris@aol.com
Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:05:02 EST
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Unfortunately I had to miss the BCN meeting on Saturday because of an
Illinois Chapter Sierra Club meeting which I could not skip, but I understood from
Bob Fisher when I saw him at (absolutely freezing cold but we saw the Harlequin
Duck) Hammond Marina on Sunday that BCN member groups were in agreement that
the Beck Lake Fence Off dog area idea is a bad one because it excludes general
access.
Jane is trying to make the point that all fence-offs are a bad idea if they
exclude the general public and I think most would agree with her. COS's
recommendations don't take a stand on fences either way - just that the area be open
to all (fenced or not) and that plenty of signage makes it clear that
off-leash dogs are in the area. Personally, I don't think fences are necessary or
desirable, but they don't have much impact on birds one way or another and if
anything, make nice perches for territorial birds, for perch hunters and for hawks
(which like to use fences to chase prey birds up against for easier catching).
Christine Williamson
Chicago/Cook
birdchris@aol.com
In a message dated 1/24/2004 11:17:00 AM Central Standard Time,
balx2@comcast.net writes:
All, here are some thoughts we would like to add in the spirit of open
discussion of DFAs. We thought it might be a way of helping clarify to others why we
take the position we do. We've been having a discussion with a few people off
list, and it was suggested that some of the thoughts below might be of
interest to the larger group.
John and Jane Balaban
North Branch Restoration Project
Please consider the following scenarios. All of these are currently
happening or will happen shortly or could conceivably happen at some near future date.
How do you think a FP Commissioner should answer these requests and on what
basis?
1) A group of Chicago Native Americans requests that FPDCC fence off 100
acres so that they can create historical native american buildings and exhibits.
This would be primarily to allow them to experience nature and teach
traditions and culture to their children, but they would welcome visitors as well.
They ask to be in control of scheduling who can come in and when, and would
install locks, in order to protect their buildings and displays. They would raise
money to pay for the fence. They would charge a small admission fee to pay
for the time of the docents.
2) A group of paintball players requests that FPDCC fence off 50 acres of
degraded woodland for them so their group can enjoy the sport of paintball wars
in a natural setting. The fence would be required so that the public doesn't
wander in and maybe be hurt by flying paintballs. They would welcome other
groups but ask to be in control of scheduling who can come and when, in order to
avoid conflicts and having too many people on the range at one time. They
would ask for locks and key card readers to be installed and would limit the
number of key card holders in order to avoid conflicts and having too many people
on the range at one time. They would raise money to pay for the fence through
the sale of key cards. They might charge a small admission fee to help pay
for regular woodland cleanup.
3) A group of motocross bike riders requests that the FPDCC fence off some 80
acres of Palos hill country for riding, training and competition. There is
no better way to ride motocross than flying through nature enjoying the hills
and the trees. The fence would be required so that the public doesn't wander in
and maybe be hurt by speeding bikers. They would welcome other groups but
ask to be in control of scheduling who can come and when, in order to avoid
conflicts and having too many people on the range at one time. They would raise
money to pay for the fence. They would charge a small admission fee to help
pay for regular course maintenance.
4) A group of dog owners requests that the FPDCC fence off some 40 acres of
field and woodland and wetland as an area where they can enjoy nature with
their pets off leash. The fence would be required so that the public doesn't
wander in and maybe be hurt by unleashed dogs and also to keep unleashed dogs from
running out into traffic. They would ask for locks and key card readers to
be installed and would limit the number of key card holders in order to avoid
conflicts and having too many people on the range at one time. They would
raise money to pay for the fence through the sale of key cards.
5) A group of soccer players requests that the FPDCC fence off 5 acres for
several soccer fields. The fence would be required so that the public doesn't
wander in and maybe be hurt by players more intent on the game than looking for
visitors. They would welcome other groups but ask to be in control of
scheduling who can come in and when, in order to avoid conflicts and having too many
people on the fields at one time. They would raise money to pay for the
fence. They would charge a small admission fee to help pay for regular field
maintenance.
6) A group of birdlovers and birdwatchers asks the FPDCC to fence off 200
acres in the center of a square mile of grassland to protect grassland nesting
birds. The fence would be required so that the public doesn't wander in and
disrupt the breeding habits of the nesting birds. They would ask for locks and
key card readers to be installed and would limit the number of key card holders
in order to avoid conflicts and having too many birdwatchers on the main
nesting range at one time. They would raise money to pay for the fence through
the sale of key cards.
7) A group of campers asks the FPDCC to fence off an existing building and 40
acres of nearby woodlands and fields. They enjoy nature by camping out with
their children and friends and would use the area to teach critical
environmental skills to a new group of adolescents and young adults. They would welcome
other groups but the fence would be required so that they can be in control of
scheduling who can come and when, in order to avoid conflicts and having too
many people in the campsites at one time. They would raise money to pay for
the fence. They would charge a small admission fee to help pay for regular
site maintenance.
We believe that this issue is really not about dogs or dog owners. It's
about the fact that a couple of hundred people essentially were able to buy 22
acres of forest preserve land for $50 apiece -- and then got to use that money to
build a fence around it and lock the rest of us out! Everyone screamed when
Rosemont Mayor Don Stephens bought 3 acres for millions of dollars, but no one
seems to care about this sale. In fact people are talking about giving
exclusive rights to even more groups. Those groups just happen to be dog owners at
present, but there's no telling who the next group will be once people learn
they can buy exclusive rights to acres of forest preserve land.
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<DIV>
<DIV>Unfortunately I had to miss the BCN meeting on Saturday because of an I=
llinois Chapter Sierra Club meeting which I could not skip, but I understood=
from Bob Fisher when I saw him at (absolutely freezing cold but we saw the=20=
Harlequin Duck) Hammond Marina on Sunday that BCN member groups were in agre=
ement that the Beck Lake Fence Off dog area idea is a bad one because it exc=
ludes general access. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jane is trying to make the point that all fence-offs are a bad idea if=20=
they exclude the general public and I think most would agree with her. COS's=
recommendations don't take a stand on fences either way - just that the are=
a be open to all (fenced or not) and that plenty of signage makes it clear t=
hat off-leash dogs are in the area. Personally, I don't think fences ar=
e necessary or desirable, but they don't have much impact on birds one way o=
r another and if anything, make nice perches for territorial birds, for perc=
h hunters and for hawks (which like to use fences to chase prey birds up aga=
inst for easier catching).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Christine Williamson</DIV>
<DIV>Chicago/Cook</DIV>
<DIV>birdchris@aol.com</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/24/2004 11:17:00 AM Central Standard Time, balx2@c=
omcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>All, here are some thoughts we would like to add in=20=
the spirit of open discussion of DFAs. We thought it might be a way of=20=
helping clarify to others why we take the position we do. We've been having=20=
a discussion with a few people off list, and it was suggested that some of t=
he thoughts below might be of interest to the larger group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>John and Jane Balaban</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>North Branch Restoration Project</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT=
face=3DArial>
<HR>
<BR>Please consider the following scenarios. All of these are currentl=
y happening or will happen shortly or could conceivably happen at some near=20=
future date. How do you think a FP Commissioner should answe=
r these requests and <STRONG><U>on what basis?</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>1) A group of Chicago Native Americans requests that=
FPDCC fence off 100 acres so that they can create historical native america=
n buildings and exhibits. This would be primarily to allow them to exp=
erience nature and teach traditions and culture to their children, but they=20=
would welcome visitors as well. They ask to be in control of schedulin=
g who can come in and when, and would install locks, in order to protect the=
ir buildings and displays. They would raise money to pay for the fence=
. They would charge a small admission fee to pay for the time of the d=
ocents.<BR><BR>2) A group of paintball players requests that FPDCC fence off=
50 acres of degraded woodland for them so their group can enjoy the sport o=
f paintball wars in a natural setting. The fence would be required so=20=
that the public doesn't wander in and maybe be hurt by flying paintballs.&nb=
sp; They would welcome other groups but ask to be in control of scheduling w=
ho can come and when, in order to avoid conflicts and having too many people=
on the range at one time. They would ask for locks and key card=20=
readers to be installed and would limit the number of key card holders in or=
der to avoid conflicts and having too many people on the range at one time.&=
nbsp; They would raise money to pay for the fence through the sale of key ca=
rds. They might charge a small admission fee to help pay for regular w=
oodland cleanup.<BR><BR>3) A group of motocross bike riders requests that th=
e FPDCC fence off some 80 acres of Palos hill country for riding, training a=
nd competition. There is no better way to ride motocross than flying t=
hrough nature enjoying the hills and the trees. The fence would be required=20=
so that the public doesn't wander in and maybe be hurt by speeding bikers.&n=
bsp; They would welcome other groups but ask to be in control of scheduling=20=
who can come and when, in order to avoid conflicts and having too many peopl=
e on the range at one time. They would raise money to pay for the fenc=
e. They would charge a small admission fee to help pay for regular cou=
rse maintenance.<BR><BR>4) A group of dog owners requests that the FPDCC fen=
ce off some 40 acres of field and woodland and wetland as an area where they=
can enjoy nature with their pets off leash. The fence would be requir=
ed so that the public doesn't wander in and maybe be hurt by unleashed dogs=20=
and also to keep unleashed dogs from running out into traffic. They wo=
uld ask for locks and key card readers to be installed and would limit the n=
umber of key card holders in order to avoid conflicts and having too many pe=
ople on the range at one time. They would raise money to pay for the f=
ence through the sale of key cards.<BR><BR>5) A group of soccer players requ=
ests that the FPDCC fence off 5 acres for several soccer fields. The f=
ence would be required so that the public doesn't wander in and maybe be hur=
t by players more intent on the game than looking for visitors. They w=
ould welcome other groups but ask to be in control of scheduling who can com=
e in and when, in order to avoid conflicts and having too many people on the=
fields at one time. They would raise money to pay for the fence. =
; They would charge a small admission fee to help pay for regular field main=
tenance.<BR><BR>6) A group of birdlovers and birdwatchers asks the FPDCC to=20=
fence off 200 acres in the center of a square mile of grassland to protect g=
rassland nesting birds. The fence would be required so that the public=
doesn't wander in and disrupt the breeding habits of the nesting birds.&nbs=
p; They would ask for locks and key card readers to be installed and would l=
imit the number of key card holders in order to avoid conflicts and having t=
oo many birdwatchers on the main nesting range at one time. They would=
raise money to pay for the fence through the sale of key cards.<BR><BR>7) A=
group of campers asks the FPDCC to fence off an existing building and 40 ac=
res of nearby woodlands and fields. They enjoy nature by camping out w=
ith their children and friends and would use the area to teach critical envi=
ronmental skills to a new group of adolescents and young adults. They would=20=
welcome other groups but the fence would be required so that they can be in=20=
control of scheduling who can come and when, in order to avoid conflicts and=
having too many people in the campsites at one time. They would raise=
money to pay for the fence. They would charge a small admission fee t=
o help pay for regular site maintenance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>We believe that this issue is really not about=20=
dogs or dog owners. It's about the fact that a couple of hundred peopl=
e essentially were able to buy 22 acres of forest preserve land for $50 apie=
ce -- and then got to use that money to build a fence around it and lock the=
rest of us out! Everyone screamed when Rosemont Mayor Don Stephens bo=
ught 3 acres for millions of dollars, but no one seems to care about this sa=
le. In fact people are talking about giving exclusive rights to even m=
ore groups. Those groups just happen to be dog owners at present, but=20=
there's no telling who the next group will be once people learn they can buy=
exclusive rights to acres of forest preserve land.</FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOC=
KQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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