[BCNnet] Private Use of Public Land

[judymellin]

I think what Jane has to say really summarizes the nature of the problem.
The "conflict" is not between birders and dog owners but over the idea of
taking public land private and I do feel that private is the correct term to
use.  These people want exclusive use of public land.

None of us is trying to say that dogs don't belong on forest preserves any
more than we want people to say that restorationists don't belong there.  We
want all forest preserves open to all who wish to use them and obey the FPD
rules.

Joe states, "One difference in DuPage is that (currently) there is no
registration or fee and people without dogs can use the area if they want
to." Maybe Joe is not aware that we have areas already in Cook County that
are just what he describes called Dog Training Areas and none of us is
quibbling about those.  Alan Anderson and I have birded this area in Hoffman
Estates and had no problem.  Duane Heaton and I have been there, too, with
the same results.  The difference is that this area and others in the county
are open to all. To me, the minute we put up fences and impose fees, we take
this land out of public use.

As Jane so eloquently states, "We need not to be so quick to compromise what
little natural land is left or we'll compromise them right out of
existence."  Where do we draw the line?  Again, I think we have to get past
the issue of dog owners and focus on the issue of any exclusive use by any
group of public land.  I don't think that anyone should pick and choose one
exclusive use over another.  Once one special interest group gets its way,
it will be harder and harder to close the door to others.

In the most recent article about the state of the Cook County Forest
Preserve, it was stated that 40 million people use the preserves every year.
That puts the density at a very high level and taking any land out of public
use will only increase the demand on what's left.

Stephen is right in that we need to mobilize on this issue.  If you have not
had a chance yet, please check out http://thatcherdog.com to see how
organized this group is.

For folks on the Stewards' List who may not have seen this, here's a copy of
the original letter and a reposting of the article that got this whole
discussion opened.  Alan Anderson saw a problem and decided to let others
know about it.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alan Anderson
To: BCNnet Listserv
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 1:30 PM
Subject: [BCNnet] fencing FP areas; questions and important article


The accompanying article (see below) was in the latest issue of the Des
Plaines Times, and possibly other local Pioneer Press papers.   It is
important to read it to understand the current situation with regard to area
forest preserves and dog areas.   Please understand that I am not opposed to
dog areas in general.   What I don't fully understand, and really do worry
about, it that this both sets a dangerous precedent for other groups (it
might be the dog groups now, but it could be other groups later also) to ask
for set aside forest preserve areas for the use of a particular group, and
keeps those outside the paying group from using that area of the forest
preserve.

three areas of questions to think about (my concerns - but if others don't
have the same concerns, maybe I am missing something and didn't worry):

1)  how far might this go?  how many other groups will ask for forest
preserve areas to be set aside (fenced in and only 'those paying' can get
in) and when/where would it end?   I certainly believe that this will not
end with just the Beck Lake and Thatcher area dog groups.    The Beck Lake
group is at its permit level (3OO or 500?) already so you know that there
are many dog owners  who might want a separate set-aside area in the forest
preserves, and maybe additional groups (not dog owners but other groups)
that might want a similar area in the future.     And where?  the Beck Lake
dog area  includes a pond, a creek and adjacent wetlands - will wetlands
always be the desired spot?

2)  if they want to "co-exist" with others, then why are all others kept out
of this area - a public forest preserve?

3)  I doubt it would be good to discuss all of the issues/concerns involved
with them at their Nov. 18th meeting, but would it be ok to suggest that a
few Cook County Commissioners and members of Thatcher Dog get together with
reps from BCN to discuss the issues/concerns in the future?    I certainly
don't want to get into a shouting match or arguments with them (as those who
know me certainly understand), but I do wish they (especially the
commissioners) would see some overall concerns that I and others might have
about 'fencing' in areas of our forest preserves, and keeping others out.

Right now I have concerns about the issues and really would want to talk to
others who are sincere and willing to work together on this overall
situation.   If others don't feel it could get out of control, or won't lead
to "I want mine too", please say so.    I'm unsure just how important others
feel these issues are.   If no one else but Judy and I are concerned, then
maybe I really am worrying too much about it.   If the commissioners are for
these proposals have they looked at some of these concerns or questions and
determined that they won't be a problem?

I guess I need to call Mike Quigley's office too, to get his opinion.

anyhow, the article in question is below.   It is filled with many important
facts and history.

Alan Anderson, casresearch@comcast.net , Des Plaines

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alan Anderson
To: alan52dp@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 2:58 PM
Subject: article: Going to the Dogs


GOING TO THE DOGS

Owners Seek canine-friendly places in forest preserves

by Cathryn Gran and Irv Leavitt

Staff Writers

Pioneer Press

(this article appeared in The Des Plaines Times, Thursday, 11-6-03, pp73-75,
and possibly other PP papers)

Residents who founded the Beck Lake Dog Friendly Area between Glenview and
Des Plaines have three pieces of advice for anyone who wants something from
the Cook County Forest Preserve District:

- be prepared

- prove you have support

- don't give up

Their sage advice is being put to use by Thatcher DOG, a group of area dog
lovers.

Thatcher DOG is lobbying to create a dog-friendly area somewhere along
Thatcher Avenue between Madison Street and Irving Park Road.

Beck Lake organizer Gia Heybrock is coaching Thatcher DOG on its campaign.

Before Heybrock, Jan Stoltz and a few other dog owners took on the forest
preserve district three years ago, they first found out how other groups had
convinced area municipalities to allow dog parks.

Their initial stop was a pilgrimage to the woman who won Chicago's support
for the city's first public dog area, Wiggley Field, in 1992.

"Stacy Hawk showed us how to do it step by step, what to do to get the dog
park in," Heybrock said. "With Stacy there to help us, we didn't do anything
that didn't make sense.

"Basically, you have to get community support," added Heybrock, a Des
Plaines woman whose regular job is tending bar at Dino's Pizzeria on
Chicago's Northwest Side. "We had over 3,000 signatures on a petition."

The biggest factor in the Beck Lake effort's success was 'persistence", said
County Commissioner Mike Quigley, D-10th, who put Heybrock and her friends
on the County Board's agenda.

"They were persistent with the board, persistent with the superintendent,
persistent with the administration of the forest preserve district," Quigley
added.

"There are some really good people in the forest preserve who really care
about this, but they are stymied by ineffective management."

All Heybrock's group wanted was a fence around a few acres of land at the
side of a pond with access to a parking lot so their dogs could run
off-leash.

Similar considerations had been granted by municipalities and other Illinois
counties for a decade, so there was no necessity to reinvent the wheel.

Heybrock and her group were up to the task, Quigley said. They were never at
a loss for complete paperwork or allies to back them up in front of the
County Board or its committees.

"They had their ducks in order, people ready to testify, tons of
documentation, people to do lobbying." Quigley said. Their effort was "a
good example in any level of government".

Members of the Thatcher Woods Dog Owners Group are making good use of
suggestions offered by members of the Beck Lake group. The Thatcher group
includes residents of Elmwood Park, Melrose Park, Oak Park, River Forest,
Riverside, Brookfield and Chicago.

"We have quite a few people who are interested in something other than some
of the smaller dog parks, which are cement," noted Beth Kaplan, one of the
Thatcher DOG co-chairs. Also helping organize the operation are Erika Arett,
Linda Funk, and Jim DeLauriea.

Kaplan credits Arnett as being the driving force behind the dog park.

Following in the paw prints of Beck Lake, Thatcher members started a
petition drive.

"We have well over 600 signatures, both online and hard copy," Kaplan said,
noting group members take every opportunity to gather more names at the
various events in which they participate.

They also plan on attending today's Cook County Board meeting, and possibly
address the board.

"We've attended one (meeting) so far just to see what was involved," Kaplan
said. "We wanted to present ourselves to commissioners. So, we introduced
ourselves and gave an update as to who we are and what we are trying to
accomplish.

"We already have met individually with four commissioners and they seemed to
be all for it".

The group also is trying to decide on a location for the dog park.

"There are two different areas we are focused on," Kaplan said. "We want to
work closely with forest preserve board to see which site would work
better."

The two locations are the preserves on the north side of Chicago Avenue
between Thatcher and First Avenues and the area just south of Fullerton
Avenue and west of Thatcher.

"We do not want to knock heads with environments or any others," she
explained. "We want to co-exist. Once again, we really need to work with the
forest preserve to see what's feasible."

The group will continue with its letter-writing campaigning to all county
commissioners and try to add more signatures to its petitions, Kaplan said.

The group also will meet at 7:30pm Nov. 18 in the Oak Park Public Library,
834 W. Lake St.

The meeting will be an important forum for dog lovers to voice their ideas
for a dog-friendly area, according to information provided by the Thatcher
Woods Dog Owners Group.

The meeting will include a review of proposed sites and of results from the
Nov. 5 County Board meeting. The group will update the status of current
activities such as petition drive, letter writing campaign and public
outreach efforts.

Additional information about Thatcher DOG and its activities is available by
visiting www.ThatcherDog.com

Judy Mellin
Bird Monitor
Poplar Creek Prairie Stewards
Hoffman Estates (Cook County)