[BCNnet] fencing FP areas; questions and important article
Birdchris@aol.com
Birdchris@aol.com
Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:46:27 EST
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I don't really understand what this sentence of Randi's means: Please
consider that no person ran for office to be a commissioner of the Cook County Forest
Preserve. It's just something they have to do.
I think commissioners recognize that they have joint roles as commissioner of
Cook County AND the Forest Preserves. There are some commissioners who might
be a lot more interested in County stuff than in the CCFPD, but many probably
prefer the CCFPD side of the job. I just don't know how to interpret this
point of Randi's: I think she means that these politicians ran more because of the
County side of the equation and aren't interested in CCFPD issues. if that's
what Randi meant, I disagree.
Also, for the record, Randi's next statement here is purely her opinion. And
the only commissioner who really cares about the environment is Quigley -- the
same one quoted in the Pioneer article encourging the Thatcher Dog group.
There are a handful of others considered to be 'good' by the Sierra Club but
even those commissioners cast what they call pragmatic votes -- like building a
parking lot on FP land for the new Jewish museum in Skokie..
The Sierra Club does work with any commissioner who will be supportive of
environmental issues, as does the Nature Conservancy, Open Lands Project and
Friends of the Forest Preserves. Sierra Club does make endorsements of political
candidates and a wrong vote on a crucial issue like support for an
inappropriate use of Forest Preserve District land could cost an endorsement and make a
"good" candidate into one that is no longer endorsed. But in-between elections,
we work hard to influence "good" commissioners to do the right thing. We don't
always succeed and as I suggest, there could be consequences down the road.
I agree with Randi that the best means of dealing with this issue is to
create siting criteria and a process for designating dog use areas and to set the
bar high. Sierra Club is working with the "good" Superintendent, Mr Byliner, to
see if there can be a moratorium placed on dog area creation until a proper
criteria and process are in place.
Also, dedicated use areas like tobaggon slides, fishing areas, maintenance
yards, staff homes, parking lots, dedicated Illinois Nature Preserves and bike,
cross country skiing and hiking trails aren't on the list, below.
Christine Williamson
Chicago/Cook
birdchris@aol.com
In a message dated 11/8/2003 7:53:15 PM Central Standard Time,
Rbdoeker@aol.com writes:
(1)
Golf
Horse Riding
Tennis
Swimming Pools
Model Airplanes
and even Picnic Areas...............just some of the dedicated uses that have
long existed on FP land. A dog area is no different. And all activities
are readily available to any citizen who wants to follow the rules designated
for the specific area.
(As I mentioned earlier, this differs from the private use of some FP land by
the Boy Scouts since the only people allowed were those the Scouts approved.
The commissioners did stop this but just this year.)
Thus, the concerns about precedents being set may not be understood by any
commissioners. That train left the station before most of us were born.
(2) Please consider that no person ran for office to be a commissioner of
the Cook County Forest Preserve. It's just something they have to do. And the
only commissioner who really cares about the environment is Quigley -- the
same one quoted in the Pioneer article encourging the Thatcher Dog group. There
are a handful of others considered to be 'good' by the Sierra Club but even
those commissioners cast what they call pragmatic votes -- like building a
parking lot on FP land for the new Jewish museum in Skokie.
And to make things even more special, the commissioner for the Thatcher Woods
area is a full time politician -- his day job is to be village president of
nearby Elmwood Park.
Hey - I don't like dogs in FP either. (I'm already trying to figure out how
to get them out of City nature areas.) But not one commissioner is going to
vote against a dog area just on principle.
Thus, it is my opinion that our best bet is to work with the FP staff to make
sure they know where the important bird areas in Thatcher Woods are. The
superintendent of the FP is new. The volunteer land stewards seem very happy with
the way he is reacting to the longtime problems. I think he and his staff
will be receptive to our input but we first need to get some from the people who
know Thatcher Woods best.
Randi Doeker
Chicago
In a message dated 11/8/2003 5:55:04 PM Central Standard Time,
WJMarcisz@aol.com writes:
I think that Alan A & Judy M make very valid & important points.
Randi, you said "the train has already left the station."
Has it really? That is, has this issue already been voted on and passed?
If not, maybe it is too early to accept the Thatcher dog park as inevitable.
I can't help but think of this as a dangerous, precedent-setting land-grab by
a special interest group.
Walter Marcisz, Chicago, Cook Co.
WJMarcisz@aol.com
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<DIV>
<DIV>I don't really understand what this sentence of Randi's means: <STRONG>=
Please consider that no person ran for office to be a commissioner of the Co=
ok County Forest Preserve. It's just something they have to=20=
do. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think commissioners recognize that they have joint roles as commissio=
ner of Cook County AND the Forest Preserves. There are some commissioners wh=
o might be a lot more interested in County stuff than in the CCFPD, but many=
probably prefer the CCFPD side of the job. I just don't know how to interpr=
et this point of Randi's: I think she means that these politicians ran more=20=
because of the County side of the equation and aren't interested in CCF=
PD issues. if that's what Randi meant, I disagree. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, for the record, Randi's next statement here is purely her opinion=
. <STRONG>And the only commissioner who really cares about the environment i=
s Quigley -- the same one quoted in the Pioneer article encourging the Thatc=
her Dog group. There are a handful of others considered to be 'g=
ood' by the Sierra Club but even those commissioners cast what they call pra=
gmatic votes -- like building a parking lot on FP land for the new Jewish mu=
seum in Skokie.. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Sierra Club does work with any commissioner who will be supportive=20=
of environmental issues, as does the Nature Conservancy, Open Lands Project=20=
and Friends of the Forest Preserves. Sierra Club does make endorsements of p=
olitical candidates and a wrong vote on a crucial issue like support for an=20=
inappropriate use of Forest Preserve District land could cost an endorsement=
and make a "good" candidate into one that is no longer endorsed. But in-bet=
ween elections, we work hard to influence "good" commissioners to do the rig=
ht thing. We don't always succeed and as I suggest, there could be consequen=
ces down the road. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I agree with Randi that the best means of dealing with this issue is to=
create siting criteria and a process for designating dog use areas and to s=
et the bar high. Sierra Club is working with the "good" Superintendent, Mr B=
yliner, to see if there can be a moratorium placed on dog area creation unti=
l a proper criteria and process are in place.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, dedicated use areas like tobaggon slides, fishing areas, maintena=
nce yards, staff homes, parking lots, dedicated Illinois Nature Preserves&nb=
sp;and bike, cross country skiing and hiking trails aren't on the list,=
below. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Christine Williamson </DIV>
<DIV>Chicago/Cook</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:birdchris@aol.com">birdchris@aol.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/8/2003 7:53:15 PM Central Standard Time, Rbdoeker=
@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(1) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Golf</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Horse Riding</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tennis</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Swimming Pools</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Model Airplanes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and even Picnic Areas...............just so=
me of the dedicated uses that have long existed on FP land. A do=
g area is no different. And all activities are readily avai=
lable to any citizen who wants to follow the rules designated for the specif=
ic area. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(As I mentioned earlier, this differs from=20=
the private use of some FP land by the Boy Scouts since the only people allo=
wed were those the Scouts approved. The commissioners did stop this but just=
this year.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thus, the concerns about precedents being s=
et may not be understood by any commissioners. That train left the sta=
tion before most of us were born.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(2) Please consider that no person ra=
n for office to be a commissioner of the Cook County Forest Preser=
ve. It's just something they have to do. And the only commission=
er who really cares about the environment is Quigley -- the same one quoted=20=
in the Pioneer article encourging the Thatcher Dog group. There=20=
are a handful of others considered to be 'good' by the Sierra Club but even=20=
those commissioners cast what they call pragmatic votes -- like building a p=
arking lot on FP land for the new Jewish museum in Skokie.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And to make things even more special, the c=
ommissioner for the Thatcher Woods area is a full time politician -- hi=
s day job is to be village president of nearby Elmwood Park. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey - I don't like dogs in FP either. =
(I'm already trying to figure out how to get them out of City nature a=
reas.) But not one commissioner is going to vote against a dog area ju=
st on principle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thus, it is my opinion that our best bet is=
to work with the FP staff to make sure they know where the important bird a=
reas in Thatcher Woods are. The superintendent of the FP is new. The v=
olunteer land stewards seem very happy with the way he is reacting to the lo=
ngtime problems. I think he and his staff will be receptive to our inp=
ut but we first need to get some from the people who know Thatcher Woods bes=
t.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Randi Doeker</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chicago</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In a message dated 11/8/2003 5:55:04 PM Cen=
tral Standard Time, WJMarcisz@aol.com writes:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think that Alan A & Judy M make=
very valid & important points. <BR>Randi, you said "the train has alrea=
dy left the station." <BR>Has it really? That is, has this issue already bee=
n voted on and passed? <BR>If not, maybe it is too early to accept the Thatc=
her dog park as inevitable. <BR>I can't help but think of this as a dangerou=
s, precedent-setting land-grab by a special interest group. <BR><BR>Walter M=
arcisz, Chicago, Cook Co. <BR>WJMarcisz@aol.com </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></=
BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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